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problems with dye running using sand and seal

 
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ranposs



Joined: 30 Apr 2017
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: problems with dye running using sand and seal Reply with quote

I am building a tele thinline, ash body and maple top. I grain filled the ash using an oil based grain fill. I then applied several coats of reranch dye using denatured alcohol. I let it dry a few days. When I sprayed they dyed areas on the ash, the dye just seemed to run off. I was careful not to spray too much and had done a test on another piece of ash without any issues. A few questions:

- how long does it take the dye to dry before you can apply either sand and seal or nitro?
- do you need the sand and seal? I tested a small area with nitro. It seemed to run a little but not as much. I have repaired the areas that were damaged and plan to skip the sand and seal and go to the nitro.
- What are the reasons that the dye would run? I did a light dye on the maple. Tested that with just nitro and it worked fine.

Thank you!
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6086
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: problems with dye running using sand and seal Reply with quote

ranposs wrote:
- how long does it take the dye to dry before you can apply either sand and seal or nitro?

Using alcohol, it evaporates pretty fast. I usually wait for an hour or so, before applying any finish over it but there is no rule

ranposs wrote:
- do you need the sand and seal? I tested a small area with nitro. It seemed to run a little but not as much. I have repaired the areas that were damaged and plan to skip the sand and seal and go to the nitro.

I would use a sanding sealer, to lock in the dye. I start with 2 misting coats of sanding sealer, then start heavier coats

ranposs wrote:
- What are the reasons that the dye would run? I did a light dye on the maple. Tested that with just nitro and it worked fine.

Dye is just finely ground particles and not in any binder. Any dried particles still left on the surface will try to run when a finish is applied over it, especially over open grained wood. After it dries I usually will do a naptha wipe to remove any loose particles before applying any finish material
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ranposs



Joined: 30 Apr 2017
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the wisdom. Will try these suggestions!
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ranposs



Joined: 30 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Alternative for Naptha Reply with quote

So I live in California and it appears Naptha is not sold in stores here. Is there a good alternative that can be used?
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can use odorless mineral spirits will work as well but evaporates slower. I know Cali has it regulations. I use Crown, Jasco, CleanStrip or Sunnyside. Nothing out of plastic bottle.
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marksound



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 16672
Location: OKUSA

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they still sell lighter fluid for the Zippo in CA?

That's naphtha.
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ranposs



Joined: 30 Apr 2017
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you can buy lighter fluid for Zippo but I was reading that it isn't the same. Something about since Zippo took it over or bought it? Is that true?

How long does it take for the mineral spirits to dry?

One more. I am assuming I should sand and seal the maple top as well? I have a light coat of dye mixed with the denature alcohol.

Thanks!
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6086
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ranposs wrote:
I think you can buy lighter fluid for Zippo but I was reading that it isn't the same. Something about since Zippo took it over or bought it? Is that true?

How long does it take for the mineral spirits to dry?

One more. I am assuming I should sand and seal the maple top as well? I have a light coat of dye mixed with the denature alcohol.

Thanks!

According to the Zippo Blend C MSDS, it still shows being mostly naptha.
Mineral spirits will evaporate in under a minute, but wait a minutes longer before top coating.
I would use a sanding sealer, clear nitro or shellac, anytime when I dye the wood directly. Like I said above, the dye solution does not have any binder to keep it locked in and not run. That should be a norm in any finishing schedule that uses dye for direct wood coloring
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ladyfinisher



Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 400
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to a paint store that sells automotive paint. They have cleaners for paint prep. I think the one I use is called Acryl-clean or something like that. Works the same way naphta does.

Ladyfinisher
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ranposs



Joined: 30 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the help! Greatly appreciate it. I found someone who had some left over Klean Strip mineral spirits. Cleaned the body well and applied a mist coat of sand and seal and then two regular coats. Sanded with 600 to smooth it out. Now working on the last two coats before nitro finish. No runs. Working and looking great!
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ranposs



Joined: 30 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Removing scuff marks from sanding an edge to much Reply with quote

Another question. I was sanding the headstock after applying about 5 coats of nitro to my neck. When I was polishing the back of the head stock, I noticed a white outline on the edges of the head stock that were made apparently when I was sanding the nitro. What is the best way to get these out? I think the marks are in the nitro. The polish didn't remove them, just exentuated them. Thanks!
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leftyjay



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 444
Location: SW Florida

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like you sanded thru to the wood. if thats the case, you'll have to respray that area and take it easy along the edges with the sanding. if you just cleared the neck, you just re apply.

one thing i found out the hard way,.. you can never have enough clear on the edges. most of the time i dont sand the edges till i'm up to 1500 grit
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ranposs



Joined: 30 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect. Thanks!
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