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UPDATE - Warmoth Story
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Balance



Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 54
Location: Burbank, CA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that it came to the point just shows how little interest they have int heir customers now. I voted against.
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Rickc



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 120
Location: Halifax, Ma

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe,

I would give them a second chance, I just received my replacement neck two days ago and it came out very nice and was a perfect fit. Gregg went out of his way to make me happy, they even set up there poly booth just so they could get a neck to me without cracking lacquer. While this neck is not quite as fancy as the original it's still very nice and a whole lot less money. All in All, I think Gregg is a pretty good guy and he did go above and beyond, however, I still don't agree with some of Mr Warmoth's business decisions.

Good Luck
Rick
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Jeph



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 87
Location: E. Mass

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just voted to give them another chance. Although it sucks that you had to go through with all this, they're trying to make it right. BUT, I would ask them to take a few pics of the new neck and send those to you before they ship the neck. You should be able to see that the neck is to your satisfaction before taking delivery, and in your situation they should honor the request.
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Tele Savalas



Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 3056
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Joe, I'm one of the guys that didn't vote - the reason is, I don't know if you have an alternative. No sense voting against a second chance if there's nobody out there that will make the neck for you. Tommy might make the neck, but probably wouldn't cut a Gibson headstock. He might come close and let you file & sand it into shape.

Woodfixer has a good point about the inherent weakness of the design with Mahogany - maple would probably sound a little brighter, but here's a nice-looking item:

http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_necks.cfm?type=guitar&itemNumber=lpn196&menuItem=3&subMenuItem=0&subMenuItem2=0

or if you like Purpleheart,

http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_necks.cfm?type=guitar&start=1&menuItem=3&itemNumber=lpn197&subMenuItem=0&subMenuItem2=0

Anyway, I'll vote now, against a second chance, but I'm assuming that you are definitely sticking with mahogany and have an alternative source such as USACG.
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stike



Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 1501
Location: Durham NC

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd give 'em another shot. I've always seen nice product from the turtle boys. This could just be a fluke, all their stuff is CNC so I can't imagine why the neck and pocket were not mating, wierd. Also I don't think anyone else is making SG's, hell if you want something besides a Strat, Tele , or Jazzmaster you pretty much have to go with 'em or make it yourself
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Ken W.



Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 315
Location: W. Mass

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, the Warmoth neck does not have a Gibson headstock. It looks close, but is different. There is almost nothing that can be made exactly like a Gibson and be sold since they have a patent on everything. Even the Epiphones are made different.

Second, the warmoth headstock is not the same as a Gibson. I think a Gibson is 17 degrees and warmoth 14 degrees, so breakage is less likely to occur with less headstock angle.

At the very least, USACG should be able to make you a mahogany neck with 24-3/4 scale fret spacing and maybe an uncut headstock. Then you can cut your own shape.
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Brian Goode



Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Puyallup, WA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's true, our headstock is not an exact match for Gibson's, though it's not due to patent issues. AFAIK, Gibson cuts their headstock "crown" shape in one shot with a big shaper cutter. That's why they can have such a sharp cusp in the middle of it... this is too small for the cutters we use in our CNC router, which is why we can't match it 100%. It's also why Gibson's headstock shape has changed slightly over the years. Their cutter gets worn out and the crown starts getting a little softer, then they have re-ground and it gets sharper again for a few years.

Most SG's and LP's have a 17 degree headstock angle, while Firebirds have a 14 degree angle and Thunderbirds have a 10 degree angle. (The longer the peghead is the shallower the angle has to be to get it out of a one-piece blank of a certain thickness.) With a one-piece neck shaft like Gibson uses you have grain runout in the headstock joint, because the grain goes straight down the neck and "exits" in the front and back of the peghead face. The more angle, the more runout, the greater the risk of breakage. That's why most necks like this have a volute of extra wood at the headstock joint, to strengthen this weak area.

Our scarf-jointed pegheads have no runout, which makes for a stronger neck.... the grain in the neck follows the neck and the grain in the peghead follows the peghead. This is also why there's always some color variation at the scarf joint, especially in mahogany. Because wood reflects light differently when the grain's at different angles, you can hold a scarf jointed mahogany neck one way and the peghead will look darker and hold it another way and the neck shaft will look darker.

This is not by way of an excuse for Joe's neck, which does look like two very different shades of mahogany no matter which way you hold it, but it does explain why:

A. We needed to see the neck in person to be sure the color variation wasn't just caused by the angle of photography.
B. Some color variation is impossible for us to avoid because of the way the neck's constructed, though we can certainly start with two pieces better matched for color than those in the neck Joe recieved.

I didn't vote in this poll, and I certainly won't comment on what I think he should do - I just wanted to correct a bit of misinformation.

Thanks for listening!

- Brian Goode

edit: I forgot to mention - our necks have a 13 degree headstock angle.
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Last edited by Brian Goode on Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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db33



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not sure what your previous experince with them has been, but were it me and this the first major mixup, i would give them another chance to make it right, provided i knew in advance that if the new one was bad that i could refund it. good luck.
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Little Bit



Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 2840

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point I would say give 'em a second chance.
You've kicked up enough dust and have invested a fair amount of time trying to get it right and now, perhaps, they will to.

Then for your next project, give USGC a try Twisted Evil
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Tele Savalas



Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 3056
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input Brian. The communication is most welcome. I'll have to go home and look at my Warmoth LP tonight...I didn't realize the headstock shape was any different. Shocked
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johnnyhifi



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 102
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious Joe - It's been mentioned that the original neck heel was dead on - has Warmoth given any explanation as to why there would be such a large discrepancy with the neck pocket? I was fantasizing about an LP jr but am now totally afraid to take that plunge.
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Joeglow
Site Admin


Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 11054
Location: NY/NJ

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, no matter what happened and was said on the first post, I decided to email Gregg today and give him the green light. I know there has to be a few unhappy and unlucky folks out there but they have gone the extra mile to explain to me certain aspects of the neck and what I should expect from this one.

If I hadn't bought anything before from them I would have walked but they do make a very nice product and I feel after all, they do deserve another opportunity to make things right for me. But, I have bought from them before and I was always pleased.

Thanks to everyone that gave their input, good or bad. I have read several old posts of guys boasting their Warmoth product here and until I made my initial post I hadn't heard anything bad. So, I think its fair that they get the business. I'm sure that I'll get one helluva neck and can't wait to see it.

Thank you Brian Goode for coming in and sharing your info with us. I am glad that you explained that. Another reason your company deserves another chance in my book. Thanks for taking the time to explain your neck making.
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Balance



Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 54
Location: Burbank, CA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe, I'm sure that Brian will make sure that you're very happy, and I have to confess that the Warmoth neck I have is first-rate and that your previous projects looked incredible.
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woodfixer



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 93
Location: Sunny Fl. Keys

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see BRIAN makes GOODE. Cool
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Brian Goode



Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Puyallup, WA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been told I make a GOODE guitar, too! Laughing

Happy to help, all.
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