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Do you have problems w/Deft lacquer being soft? Poll
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Have you experienced Deft not curing hard enough?
No, and I live outside CA
60%
 60%  [ 30 ]
No, and I live *in* CA
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Yes, and I live outside CA
22%
 22%  [ 11 ]
Yes, and I live *in* CA
12%
 12%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 50

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atrglock



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was doing some looking around about this topic and I found something interesting. On a forum one guy said a possible reason deft doesn't cure for some people is that they don't shake the can enough. He said that the "hardener" settles at the bottom, and unless you really shake the can you get problems with it being soft.

I don't know anything about this but I thought I would pass it on....


Andrew
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Craig_



Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 2532
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andrew...could a mystery be solved Question
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Johnson82



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 1733
Location: New Castle, IN

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did some work for a customer whose guitar I clearcoated two years ago, and, after pulling the masking tape after a touch-up, the tape left an impression...AFTER TWO YEARS!!!! Evil or Very Mad That was the first and likely last Deft job I'll do...No offense to anyone who uses it and likes it. It's like the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice and...um...We can't get fooled again!" Laughing Laughing
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What kind of operation is that? No sawdust...no empty beer bottles...no one is using extremely foul language...no one is spending 2 hours looking for lost tools...no dust on the bodies in the finishing room…
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74 Strat



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 5639

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Structo wrote:
Ok, now we're talking.
Acrylic lacquer, totally different material.

BTW, I still have two or three of the old cans of gloss nitro but I tend to use those for utilitarian uses such as wash coats.


I have been using the Blue cans this week and it is definitely Nitro. Says so on the list on chemicals on the back of the can. I have laid down one can and a half already on top of the Goldtop and going to finish the rest of the can I just hope not to have curing issues as some have had...Dean
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ggwatt



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 166
Location: Royse City, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had very poor results in Abilene Texas. It never seemed to get as hard as McFadden’s. For the amount of time and expense I put into a project I just can't justify compromising on materials.
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udimet720



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Tustin, CA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live in southern California (Orange County) and have had issues with Deft not hardening even after hanging a body for 2 months in my garage.

ReadinG over the thread, I'm wondering about the 'well shaken' theory. If I had to guess, I'm pretty sure I fall into the 'only a few shakes of the can' camp. So the theory sounds plausible to me.

I smell a nitro experiment comin on...
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Houndog



Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 12116
Location: Walpole, MA.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"On a forum one guy said a possible reason deft doesn't cure for some people is that they don't shake the can enough. He said that the "hardener" settles at the bottom"



I'm curious what the guy means by "hardener", since nitro lacquer is not catalyzed, what hardener could he be talking about? Lacquer hardens when the solvents in it evaporate, it doesn't use a chemical reaction to become hard. Confused
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atrglock



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Houndog, This is the thread I was reading...

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-125434.html


Andrew
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Houndog



Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 12116
Location: Walpole, MA.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, TDPRI, that explains it! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Joe Desperado



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 3911
Location: Waikiki, Hi.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I think we can see that the more expirenced guys seem to have less issues than the less expeirenced guys. This makes me wonder two things:

1) Are you shaking the can often enough
2) Are you laying on too thick of a coat?

If you use the rules of 3 to any aproximate timeline, you are spraying several light coats that dry fast and have time to gas a little before the next coat. If you like to spray heavy and often, you are capturing gasses and such that will take much longer to leave the finish.

Case in point: I sprayed a gold top and clear coated with Deft. It seemed hard after 30 days. I wet sanded and it was soft underneither. I know for a fact that I layed the last coats on pretty wet and heavy. Almost forgoing the rules of 3. I lay three heavy coats on about every 2 hours. It took another few months after wet sanding to completely harden. Did it take longer because I sprayed thick heavy coats every few hours?

Case 2: I recently sprayed a mandolin with Deft. Many light coats over many days...maybe several weeks..and in the cold. I had some runs that I had to sand out before my final coats went on. It was so darn hard, I had to use a heavier grit paper to get thru it. I then sprayed a few final light coats over the top and let it sit about 2 weeks. It was very hard and turned out great. Light coats, many days dried very fast.

Hmmm....seems to me the secret to deft is to follow the directions in RR101 and take your time to complete.
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Structo



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 26415
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The theme I seem to be noticing is the guys with the soft lacquer often say they sprayed heavy coats.

That in itself is going to lead to slower drying times.

There is a reason you should wait two to three hours between coats.

As Houndog said, if you are not getting 9-12 coats out of two cans, then you are spraying too heavy.

That's one of the key things with lacquer, it melts into itself so the coats should be kept relatively thin and built up slowly with adequate drying times between coats.
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6106
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Houndog wrote:
"On a forum one guy said a possible reason deft doesn't cure for some people is that they don't shake the can enough. He said that the "hardener" settles at the bottom"

I'm curious what the guy means by "hardener", since nitro lacquer is not catalyzed, what hardener could he be talking about? Lacquer hardens when the solvents in it evaporate, it doesn't use a chemical reaction to become hard. Confused


I think the whole problem stems from the fact that the Deft Lacquer aerosol in the blue can states that there is no marble in the Gloss version. So, you need to shake the can more than normal to get the resins (hardener? Laughing) and solvents mixed correctly. From Deft FAQ section

"Q. Why do I need to shake an aerosol can?

A. You shake an aerosol can to disperse the flattening agents in semi gloss, satin and low luster top coats. You will hear the marble doing its job as you shake the can. Since there is no flattening agent in gloss top coats, a marble is not added to the can."

Haven't used the acrylic lacquer (green can), so don't know what the label says. Just my take on things and YMMV.
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bildo



Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 2828
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I think it is the too many heavy coats. When you first start out you try to get a perfect coat with no peel and put it on too heavy. I did Razz So when you learn that you still have to wet sand and polish no matter what. You do the light coats.
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fatdad



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 353
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the 9 - 12 coats out of two cans, does that still hold for Deft vs. Bill's clear? You get 32 oz from Bill vs. 24 from Deft. Based on that I put closer to 3 cans of Deft on my current project, but that included the neck as well. BTW, mine seems to be drying very well but I haven't gotten into the wet sanding yet so who knows what I'll find when I start getting beneath the surface.
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Johnson82



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 1733
Location: New Castle, IN

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnson82 wrote:
I just did some work for a customer whose guitar I clearcoated two years ago, and, after pulling the masking tape after a touch-up, the tape left an impression...AFTER TWO YEARS!!!! Evil or Very Mad That was the first and likely last Deft job I'll do...No offense to anyone who uses it and likes it. It's like the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice and...um...We can't get fooled again!" Laughing Laughing


Okay guys, I just checked my date on the photos I took of the guitar...and I was way off on the estimate...It was FIVE YEARS!!! Now, I'm not an expert in any way, shape, or form, but that's a bit ridiculous...For tape to leave an impression on lacquer after FIVE YEARS??? I have also used Stew Mac lacquer and Bill's and had zero trouble after 30 days, let alone after 5 years. My technique hasn't really varied (as in, I didn't lay the Deft on extra heavy, or anything). As a matter of fact, the very first guitar I refinished (old Harmony semi-hollow) had a broken headstock somewhat recently, and I masked to touch up the finish. Used the exact same tape with no issues. I used Stew Mac lacquer on that one.

Again, this isn't a knock on anyone who uses and likes Deft. I just want to throw out another experience. YMMV, etc...
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Plaid Sabbath wrote:
What kind of operation is that? No sawdust...no empty beer bottles...no one is using extremely foul language...no one is spending 2 hours looking for lost tools...no dust on the bodies in the finishing room…
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