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Who would do this?
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Would you hand your child a loaded Uzi?
Yes
6%
 6%  [ 2 ]
No
93%
 93%  [ 31 ]
Total Votes : 33

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Vince



Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 11429
Location: Decatur IL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject: Who would do this? Reply with quote

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6393527&page=1
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kurt72



Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 5476
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i voted no. i don't have any children or firearms. but imho 8 yrs old is too young for ANY gun.
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Travst



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 9535
Location: Birmingham, AL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vince, I hope you're not surprised at the enormous number of dumbasses in the world. This tragedy could have been avoided by the use of a modicum of common sense. Surprisingly, no one there spoke up. If I had been present, I'd have called attention to the stupidity of it, regardless of who got sore about my opinion.
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solemn13



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
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Location: On a lost bound train runnin on Rogaine out of control

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm The kids dad was a Dr. ? He should at the very least have his license revoked for being a complete idiot. Thats a very sad story. no I would never allow my child to hold any type of gun other than a BB gun. I would at least have some choice words with anyone who would even offer a gun to one of them.
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sinnerboy61



Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 1709
Location: East Coast

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard about this a few weeks ago. Moron. Teaching your child proper firearms safety, and how to shoot using a BB gun is one thing, but if you give your 8 y/o child a fully-automatic 9mm sub-machine gun - AND TURN YOUR BACK - you should be castrated.
I didn't even have a .22 until I was around 12-13. These kind of morons give the anti-gun crowd the worst kind of "ammunition".
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~frank



Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 5862
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted no, but I wouldn't have any problem handing my child a loaded Uzi - She's 42 Razz and knows a lot about firearms safety.

I heard about that tragedy but didn't see the details. I can't believe any responsible adult - especially a law-enforcement officer - would let an 8-year old handle ANY loaded automatic weapon by himself. IMO, the FATHER should be charged, too.

I'm 100% for teaching children how to use and respect firearms. I personally believe 8 is too young for anything beyond a BB gun. An automatic weapon is out of the question.
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rhardman



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: Chicago, not ready for reform, yet

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was that age there were a number of weapons in our house...all of them broken down with the firing pins removed...

The ones in the house now are in a safe.
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---



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1508

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted no. That micro Uzi is probably one of the only guns I wouldn't let my child (that young) use. It's much different than rifles and other handguns. Because it's full auto AND it's essentially a hand gun, it requires much more control than most guns and is thus much more dangerous.

The story has been out for a little while. I'm still amazed it happened though. I'm trying to imagine how the gun would react when not under complete control. I'm thinking it would probably try to point upward, because of the force of the bullet, but in such a way as to fire at the one shooting?

CMA


Last edited by --- on Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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solemn13



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3807
Location: On a lost bound train runnin on Rogaine out of control

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is like handing a kid a knife and telling him to go play in the street. Would you be surprised when the stab themself and get hit by a car. Every one involved should be charged. I can only imagine losing a child like that, and that may be sentence enough but some things don't need to be learned by doing them. This may give the anti gun activists a leg to stand on, but I think they should all be charged with stupidity also.
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rjhalsey



Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 13942
Location: Central Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hell No!
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RandyM



Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 6719
Location: Austin Texas

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 22 at that age, and was under proper supervision whenever it was used. That dad and everyone involved should be charged, this is BS.
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Joeglow
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Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 11058
Location: NY/NJ

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted no but wanted to vcote yes sop Yes wouldn't be lonely but someone beat me to it.

He should be brought up on child endangerment and manslaughter or murder chargers. I dfon't know what the difference would be but he is guilty of that boys death, period.
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BrianWren



Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 772
Location: Pacific Northwest

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, there isn’t really enough info in the poll question to answer definitively. I can’t say with finality that I would not hand a loaded Uzi to an 8-yr old. It would depend on how much experience he had with firearms (as opposed to experience with compressed gas "guns"—BB guns, pellet guns, paint-ball guns, etc.). I think some 8-year olds would do fine on a firing range with a loaded machine gun, while the vast majority would not.

My support of such an idea would also depend on the level of supervision, and the level of expertise that supervision has.

Plus, if it were loaded with only 5 rounds, as opposed to a full load, that would make a difference, too. You can get familiarized with the weapon’s behavior with just a few bullets. It sounds like Christopher pulled the trigger, then panicked when it went off, gripping the trigger tighter. The stream of bullets lifted the nose of the weapon until it was pointed at Chris, like when a chainsaw bucks sometimes and hits the operator in the forehead. Fewer bullets would have eliminated that particular potentiality.

If it was a kid who had fired guns quite a lot, and had demonstrated an understanding of firing-range safety, and who had been instructed on how an Uzi works (where the safety is, what it will act like at the various settings—safe/semi/auto—and what to expect), that is different than a kid with no experience at all.

And contemplating extreme conditions which might bear on the poll question, in a civil uprising situation (for instance), where I am trying to defend my house from a mob, that might change my decision-making matrix as to whether I want my 8-year old pointing a loaded weapon out the windows. I'm not expecting anything like that, but when I contemplate answering a universal question, “would you ever,” I try to think of anything that might belie the resulting universality of my answer.

Now, in the article, it says that there are charges filed of providing a firearm to a child. But the article also says, “Massachusetts law allows a child to fire a gun with parental consent, so long as there's an active permit for the gun and a licensed firearm instructor is supervising” [emph. added]. So the charge sounds like it might be a witch hunt to me. This happened at a firing range, where there is supervision.

Surely we all know that it is possible to get distracted while supervising, and things can get out of hand in the blink of an eye. I don’t know that that is what happened here, but none of us know either that it did not. I rember in boot camp, when we were becoming familiarized with live grenades, the drill instructors were so nervous it made the recruits scared. They kept a firm hand-grip on our shoulders at all times, made sure we were paying attention to them-and-only-them the whole time, made sure our minds didn't wander, etc. It is a common one-time-is-enough mistake to “milk” the grenade, inadvertently releasing the firing mechanism while it is still in your hand. If you didn’t notice that you did that, you will continue to hold what you think is a safe grenade, but which is actually counting down to exploding.

I would think that when you have a kid with a firearm in his hands, you should keep that kind of physical contact (better, a hand on the weapon at all times). If the instructor had had a hand on the weapon, he probably would have been able to keep it pointed downrange until its load was expended.

Quote:
Susan Gates, general counsel for the Washington, D.C.-based Children's Defense Fund, said the shooting .. was a tragic reminder that there is not enough being done in the US to keep guns out of children's hands. "It just continues to illustrate why children should not have access to any type of gun," Gates said.

Oh, BS! This incident doesn’t say one single thing touching on the issue of gun’s in the hands of children, in the way that she means it.

This is that analogue of times like when the killers at Columbine stole their weapons, it showed that we needed more laws regarding guns. Should we fix the whole problem of kids illegally posessing guns by making it illegal to break the law?

There would be fewer home accidents (Gates’s real issue) involving children and guns if their parents made them more familiar with firing the guns in the house at a range, so that they would know not to play with them, and would know how to prevent them from discharging if they did wind up holding them.

Whether an 8-year old should be handed a loaded Uzi depends on the child’s experience, the child’s personality, the environment (a range? a living room?), the expertise of the available supervision, the quantity of supervision and the status of the weapon (fully loaded?), and maybe even more than I have thought of herein.

I guess I’m going to have to vote “yes,” even though that is not a universal answer. (There are some adults I would not hand any loaded weapon to, for instance...)
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Vince



Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 11429
Location: Decatur IL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry... there are adult things that are extremely dangerous that a child should NEVER have access to!

A child does not possess the maturity or mentality to handle those situations and it is up to adults to be able to do that for them. This father acted with extreme stupidity and should be castrated and serving a life sentence for manslaughter and endangering a child.

Hunting is one thing... a child never has reason to have an Uzi in his hands... PERIOD!

I think you are way off base Brian and I am sure you know exactly what I was asking....


There are everyday things that you do not let your children do... EVEN SUPERVISED!
Iron your clothes... Why? Because they will burn themselves... Maybe not but you don't because they could!

Boil eggs on the stove... an 8 years old? No... Why? Because they could scald themselves....

All these things can go wrong in a split second.... Confused

It all comes down to... you are responsible for your childs safety until they are an adult (I was going to write 18 but Brian would have written a book on emancipation! Laughing )

Most take that without saying and is instinctual.... others not so much.

Yes... I made assumptions about details as I feel for intelligent people that these details are not needed....
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Joeglow
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Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Vince.

I'm a gun guy, I own many rifles and handguns. I support the 2nd amendment whole heartedly. But I would never give an 8 yr. old a loaded semi automatic weapon. Its just irresponsible and actually just plain dumb.
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