The Guitar Refinishing and Restoration Forum

[dougk]

A friend of mine on another forum I hang out on asked me bout how I do the firebirds so I made a full rundown on it. Thought I'd share over here (and keep the 1 thread updated)

OK, heres the general rundown of how I make a firebird.

First I draw it in CAD. Get all my angles figured out ect


Then I prep the material. I make a slight deviation from how Gibson does it. When they build a firebird they make the center neck through section by itself. They get this all set then they cut a big V into the sides and attached the preshaped (thinner) wings to it.

What I do is a bit different. I prep all the materials (3 pieces) so that it will still be "laminated" the same way Gibson does, just with out the big V cut. I also prep everything at the same 1.5" thickness. I have to do this in order for my CNC to "hold" it.

First thing I do once the material is prepped is cut the head stock and scarf joint into the material blank. I dont cut the shape of the body till after the headstock is glued on.

Once thats done then the body blank goes on the CNC to be cut. I put it on upside first so it cuts the access cavity out first. Then I flip it over and start from the front.




What I also do at the same time is the CNC comes in and cuts my neck angle right into the surface of the neck. I basically do this by setting start and stop depths down the length of the neck. That basically sets my 2* angle required for a TOM bridge. I also rout my trussrod channel in at the same time.

From there it basically mills the "wings" on the body down a 1/16th of an inch to keep the stepped look going. You can see that in the second picture where its milled. I have a jig I made to put the body back on the CNC and do the same step cut on the back side.

Once thats all done I basically end up with this:


(just before I rout the TR channel)

I flush trim the rest away (because the way our CNC is setup we don't actually cut all the way through a piece else it will damage the tables or cause the vacuum to release and the part will get screwed up). At that point it basically looks like the start of a guitar.





Now that it roughly resembles a guitar its time to work the neck. Because this is a neck through the neck is a full 1.5" thick at the start tapering towards the nut because of how the angle is cut into the neck. I might be taking a different approach than most people but I decided to build a jig to plunge rout the back of the neck to the thickness I wanted.

Here is the jig:



Its hard to see it but these are not straight sides but I actually have .110" of rise built into that jig by the 12th fret. This will taper cut the neck to match (pretty close) an LP neck I was roughly copying. I think in the future I might have a bit more taper to match Steve's SG neck that is even thicker around the 12th fret.

Here are some action shots




There we go, cut to thickness!



I made a deviation from (again) from how Gibson does it. They use a round heel, personally I think thats dumb. I went for a smooth heel basically similar to an SG or LP.




belt sander fit the bill pretty well.

Then it was off to the fretboard. Unfortunately I dont have alot of "progress" shots on this but I'll make due. I cut a blank off my stick of Bolivian Rosewood, run it through the widebelt till its about .3" thick. This gives me a little cushion on the CNC. I will admit... the CNC is cheating a bit. Its just another tool though, it only works as well as the person controlling it so that;s my consolation.

I radius the fingerboard first, 12" radius in this case. Then I cut my fret slots using a .023" DIA slotting bit on the CNC. Its taken me a few sacrificial bits to get the hang of this w/out breaking them but I finally got it. I cut the slots on a matching 12" radius so there isn't a large gap under the center of the fret. This is how one of my favorite small time builders Thorn Guitars does theirs (on a CNC no less) and he swears by it.

Lastly I do my inlays. The first time around I just drilled 5mm dots on the CNC because it was quicker. This board was my first and came out like so:




The next day I went in and tried again but used my 2mm DIA bit I have for cutting switch slots to do the inlay pockets. That fretboard came out GREAT!




Once that was glued down it was time to attack the back of the neck again. I had been putting this off for a long time, finally decided to just jump in and do it. We used a couple of microplane attachments for a palm sander.

Honestly this turned out to be much easier than I expected. We made some fiberboard templates of the neck profile on Steve's SG as a basic guide. I just started running down the neck at incrementally more of an angle from vertical edges of the neck around it. Once it was roughly shaped, moved to the finer grade microplane then finally 120grit paper on the palm sander. By that point it was pretty much dialed, just went to 150 to take any remaining lumps ect out. Finally a piece of 180 by hand finished it off.




There we go, thats where I am basically as of today. The next steps will be to cut my inlays and glue them in then sand everything with the radius block. Then fret it, drill my tuner holes (their spots are marked on the cnc with a small bit, same as the electronics locations but not drilled to size yet) and make a nut for it. Drill and mount my bridge and tailpiece and with a little luck get this thing strumable in a few more days. After that, time to start spraying

Hopefully this is a little helpful to someone.

9-9-08
Tuners and bridge mounted. My pilot marks off the CNC were spot on.





9-12-08
Today I cut my inlays out. Heres the test fit



Its hard to see but they are set slightly below the surface in the center and sticking up at the corners.

I ended up gluing them in with a gel type super glue. Then I made a couple of radius sanding blocks to sand em all flush. Lastly any little gaps I filled with the dark colored Bartleys I had laying around. Im pretty happy with how they came out for a first try.






Im going to do a final sand still tomorrow. I need to go back and double check a couple things but mostly need to let that fill completely dry.

9-13
Spent the day at Steve's house today to fret about. This was uncharted territory for me but things went well today!


By this point Steve had already bent the fretwire and I had already done my final sanding with the radius block. We used his drill press to hold the stewmac caul tool.


Working our way down the neck pressing in frets.


All set ready for snipping.


All cut ready for file work.


All filed and starting to work the nut.




All strung up!!

Man I couldn't be happier. Everything lined up perfectly! hell the saddles on the bridge were almost perfect right in the centers of their travel. The guitar stays in tune perfectly, plays great ect ect. Couldn't be happier!!!


Steve giving it a test run! Man am I excited.

I gotta say, I've heard lots of stories about Firebirds being neck heavy but this one balances just right. I think alot of that is using African Mahogany vs Honduran. Probably also explains why it only weighs 6 lb 11oz right now. I think I'm going to net out right around 7.25 lbs tops. Lighter than my red strat!

9-17

Got the first coat(s) of sealer on. Trying the Minwax Polycrylic that everyones been raving about. Its pretty thin but it does look to be building up nicely. We'll see how it works out when I go back in tomorrow morning.




My "stand" is pretty simple. Just a couple of 1/2" thick, 6" tall pieces screwed down to a roll around cart. Put felt over the edge. I spray it face up, give it time to tack then holding the screws in the strap holes I flip it over with the sticks fitting inside the pup cavities. Works pretty well

(went back and sanded and reshot tonight)

9-30

So the last week and a half has been an adventure. I mentioned in another thread that using waterbased Polyacrylic turned into a disaster for me. Basically, it did seal extremely well. It was kind of a bitch to sand but I can deal with that. Shot nitro sealer over the top and everything looked good. Shot RR primer over that and with in 30 minutes the entire finish had bubbled up and off the guitar! So some 30 sheets of sandpaper later I had the body back down to raw wood.

Resealed, grainfilled and finally started seeing forward progress again the last few days. Today I shot primer and color coats and finally (knocks on wood) everything looks like its going well.







I think Im going to put a single coat of clear on next then I'll mask and do my black around the headstock. I figure if I get a little bleed through with the clear I can sand it w/out messing up the white.

10-11

Well decided it was time to wet sand and polish today. I'll get better pictures once my pup's show up and I finish the TRC, PG and rear cover. I have both carbon fiber (already cut just need to drill and bevel) and a sheet of tort' incase I change my mind.




10-17
More or less finished up the guitar today! I have a few spots of wetsanding and polishing still but over all its done. Pictures first, thoughts second!

First I made this solder shield (I have a second piece that goes over the center of the body) to help protect the paint.


The run down works like this: 3 Kent Armstrong mini buckers, 3 Volumes and a master tone. The switch is a normal 3 way wired in the normal fashion (N - NB - B). The middle pup is wired to its volume then direct to the tone pot. This lets me roll it in for N-M, M-B or N-M-B.







(you can see the wetsanding I need to do still on the black)





initial impressions

I am absolutely BLOWN away. Honestly I couldn't be happier with how it sounds! The neck pickup is amazing, the middle has this cool almost hollow chuck berry'ish tone to it. The bridge pup is ok but in all fairness I RARELY like bridge pickups on any guitar. I might look into having Lollar wind a fairly hot one but probably not worth it.

Being able to add a little mid pickup to the neck makes it sound spot on for a full sized bucker. The neck by itself nails that Johnny Winter tone which was I was really going for.

Over all the balance is fantastic, the weight is right in the mid 7's, the neck places super fast and clean. I haven't even put any tension on the truss rod yet. I played for about 4.5 hours today (blew out of work early LOL) and I couldn't be happier.

At this point I haven't decided a couple things yet: if Im going to clear coat and polish the carbon pickguard, truss rod cover and rear. OH speaking of the rear... I accidentally cut it backwards. The "good" side is facing in so I'll cut a new one few days. Thats why the grain is a bit wonky on it.

Also Im not sure in love with the gibson style TRC. Its growing on me but I have something in mind for it I'll try to photoshop soon.


10-27
Lastly the new TRC with my "logo" cut through it.


Thanks to everyone who's posted and followed this along, I've enjoyed sharing it!! I like it so much I've got 2 more in the works for me and a thunderbird for Joe!

-doug

(btw anyone interested in a firebird/thunderbird body go here)
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[Houndog]

Doug, I'm pretty sure you're the only person on the forum with a CNC machine.
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"I feel badly for people who don't drink. They wake up in the morning, and that's the best they'll feel all day."...Dean Martin

[kellinwood]

Totally cool, Doug!

[dougk]

[markocaster]

looks great Doug
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"I was told when I started to play that simple music is the hardest music in the world to play. And blues is simple music." Albert Collins

[Dan Nork]

I don't care if a CNC is a really expensive piece of equipment, the size of a room. You sir are still an artist with that thing, the same as if you were using little hand tools. (THis is where the "clapping" smilie would go if I could find it)

[Hayeseef]

[Brad Morehead]

CNC's are just over the top sick. Doug, do you know how long it takes us, (retorical question), to make a neck and body to get where you did with the CNC?

Very nice work btw.
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B-rad in Akron

Builder of great kindling and expensive sawdust.

[Joeglow]

I cannot wait for my Thunderbird to be made. That looks fantastic.

[Structo]

Yep, that is really coming together.

Doug what is the scale on a Thunderbird?

Is it standard Gibson 24 3/4?

Maybe it's just the photos but that neck looks really long.
I'm not saying it looks bad at all, just looks like a long neck.
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Tom



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Guitar Amp Repair

[dougk]

Joe, me too man! Im seriously excited about doing that!

Tom, scale length is set for a true 24 3/4". The Thunderbird (Bass) will have a REALLY long looking neck!

Brad honestly, if we were going to race over one body you'd probably out run the CNC if you count progamming time ect.

This one has been fun because its the first one I've had to take entirely through the process including shaping the neck ect by hand. Pretty fun
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[telescopicman]

threads like this are what keep me flipflopping back and forth between saving 10 grand for a Private Stock PRS and 10 grand for a low end CNC machine. DAH! Looks great:)

[dougk]

You can build a PRS w/out a CNC
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[dougk]

[Lon]