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New finish over an unknown refin
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fredcapo



Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: New finish over an unknown refin Reply with quote

Hi. I have done several restoration and refinish jobs using nitro frim rattlecans, preval and compressor spraygun. My work is pretty good, learning from forums like this and trial and error.
My last project was a disaster, from using the wrong primer...it softened when lacquer was applied on top. I went to autobody supply and think i have the right primer now, though have not tried yet.

New project is a vintage guitar that has a black refinish that i have been sanding down with 350 grit...and getting very smooth surface. I am thinking perhaps i could just prime or spray laquer over this black base...but dont know what it is. Is there a good way to test the black finish, or dust, to find out what kind of paint it is? Thanks for any suggestions.
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6106
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make and model would help to determine the current finish.

You could take some acetone or nitro thinner and rub under the pick guard to determine if it's nitro. Should get color on the rag. Shouldn't do anything if poly.
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fredcapo



Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lon thanks, but as I stated the current finish on the guitar is the unknown refin that I would like to sand, prime, and repaint. Just unsure what is the safest thing to apply over the sanded unknown refin...or how to determine what type of finish i am looking to go over.
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marksound



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 16699
Location: OKUSA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Lon said, more info is needed before we can tell you how to proceed.

Start with what kind of guitar it is, and we'll go from there.
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fredcapo



Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK... so as I said in the previous 2 posts, my guitar was refinished by someone and i dont know what kind of paint they used. So you need to know the make and model? WTF?
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BrightKJ



Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 355
Location: Midlothian, VA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fredcapo wrote:
OK... so as I said in the previous 2 posts, my guitar was refinished by someone and i dont know what kind of paint they used. So you need to know the make and model? WTF?

There's no need to be a smarta$$. You came here looking for help and that's what people are trying to do for you. Nevermind the fact that you've already gotten responses from some of the best and most experienced people on here. Nobody can give you an educated response if you can't provide at least basic information.

Given that you apparently know absolutely nothing about what you're dealing with, I would suggest that you invest in paint stripper and/or sandpaper and get busy if you want a known positive result. Otherwise, you've got a 50/50 chance at best of compatible finishes for anything that you spray over it. It will either adhere or it won't.
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fredcapo



Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Thanks to all for your time in attempting to respond to a question that may have no simple answer. I overreacted, though it would help if people read and understood the entire content of the question before responding. I will sand it down to 400 or so as best as I can and then figure out how to proceed from there. Best to just leave it at that.
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gkyhn



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3211
Location: Central California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was nice that Marksound and Lon replied but they didn't read the OP which clearly said this is a refin. Really no reason for getting panties in a bunch.

Shellac is a good barrier coat. If you apply a coat of shellac you can put just about anything over the top of it. The problem is, you don't want to put shellac over nitro. As Lon said, you can test it for nitro.
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marksound



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 16699
Location: OKUSA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gkyhn wrote:
It was nice that Marksound and Lon replied but they didn't read the OP which clearly said this is a refin. Really no reason for getting panties in a bunch.

Shellac is a good barrier coat. If you apply a coat of shellac you can put just about anything over the top of it. The problem is, you don't want to put shellac over nitro. As Lon said, you can test it for nitro.


I shouldn't have to explain this, but if we know what kind of guitar it is, we'll know the best way to take the refin off.

If someone wants help, they should be willing to provide at least some basic info. If not, makes me no difference. They can figure it out for themselves and I can go back to what I was doing. Razz
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fredcapo



Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, I appreciate that folks attempted to provide info to me. I admit that I had a bug up somewhere that day...

Shellac is something I never worked with...

The black refin is sanding down nicely, looking like black trans but dont really want that look. I think the proper finish should be a solid color nitro.

The guitar is a 68 Kustom K200 bass. Looks like the original finish was inverness green or similar.
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6106
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you ever test the current finish to see if was nitro or poly? Knowing that would save you some time of sanding. Nitro can go over poly, but poly canít go over nitro, as a rule.
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fredcapo



Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. I did not yet make any attempt to test the finish... thats the info i am looking for. So it sounds like just testing with lacquer thinner to see if it softens or not is the first step. Still, I am concerned that lacquer over some soft finish thats not poly will cause a problem when nitro is applied. This concern comes from what I mentioned in the original post... I primed a metal body with Rustoleum grey primer, and sprayed a type of lacquer over it, and the whole thing softened and was unaccepable.

The whole reason for wanting to paint over the existing unknown finish on the Kustom is that I would prefer not to sand into the grain and have to possibly fill the grain. Thanks.
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ladyfinisher



Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 410
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My theory is, if it will come off easy, take it off. You can never lose when taking a finish off. Old finish is just one more thing that can go wrong. It can let go years down the road. You don't know if the refinish job was done well either.

If lacquer thinner will take it off easy,, take it off. If nothing happens, then proceed with your primer. Remember, any finish is only as stable as the finish under it.

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gkyhn



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3211
Location: Central California

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The downsides of possible grain filling are far outweighed by the up sides of removing the finish that's there.
There's not very many shortcuts in this hobby that work out well.
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6106
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it were me, I would sand off the top color and primer if used, until you get it all completely gone. The top coat used on the original finish will give you clear scratches in the surface, then stop. Test for nitro, if it appears to be nitro, then level sand with 400, spray 2 coats of primer, level sand with 400, repeat and level sand to 600. Ready for color now. This is my basic refinish schedule

I use Duplicolor sandable primer and Perfect Match color at OíReillyís with success. I donít like their clears, so I use ReRanch a lot for all my finishing supplies
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